Sunday, January 25, 2009

Virginia Senate Bill 1142: Paving the Way for Experimenting on the Incapacitated and Dying?

A correspondent--who is a disability rights activist--alerted me to SB 1142, a proposal in Virginia to overhaul its law concerning advance directives. There are several things in the bill that concern me, but she wrote worrying that it would open the door to experimenting on the incapacitated and the dying.

She is right--the bill authorizes signers of advance directives who become incapacitated to be experimented upon if the named surrogate decision maker consents--even if the experiments are not intended to provide them any help at all. From the bill:

Section: 54.12983.1. An advance directive may authorize an agent to approve participation by the declarant in any health care study approved by an institutional review board pursuant to applicable federal regulations, or by a research review committee pursuant to Chapter 5.1 (ยง 32.1123 et seq.) of Title 32.1 that (i) offers the prospect of direct therapeutic benefit to the declarant, or (ii) aims to increase scientific understanding of any condition that the declarant may have or otherwise to promote human wellbeing, even though it offers no prospect of direct benefit to the patient.
Adding to the concern, if the patient is terminally ill, an advance directive may be established orally:
Further, any competent adult capable of making an informed decision who has been diagnosed by his attending physician as being in a terminal condition may make an oral advance directive to authorize the providing, withholding or withdrawing of lifeprolonging procedures or to appoint (i) directing the specific health care the declarant does or does not authorize in the event the declarant is incapable of making an informed decision, and (ii) appointing an agent to make health care decisions for the declarant under the circumstances stated in the advance directive if the declarant should be determined to be incapable of making an informed decision.
My correspondent notes that the form language permitting experimentation is the default setting--there isn't a check box to indicate yes or no in the suggested form. Unless the creator scratches the provision out, he or she is authorizing him or herself to be the subject human experimentation. Since some people will surely see the text as mere boilerplate or might not understand the import of the words, they might not know that they had consented to be experimented on while incapable or dying.

This provision explicitly violates the Nuremberg Code that requires subjects of human experimentation be capable of consenting to--and have complete understanding of--the experiment in which they participate. From the Code:
The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice,...and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonable to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
The Nuremberg Code isn't legally binding, but its precepts are proper guidelines to follow. The substitute decision making to allow experimentation aspect of this bill should be removed since by definition, a person for whom decisions are being made consistent with an advance directive is incapable of giving truly informed consent to participate. A nebulous general assent ahead of time of the kind allowed in the bill doesn't cut it.

Thanks very much to my correspondent for bringing this important matter to my attention.

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29 Comments:

At January 25, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Good Lord!! This is terrifying!! What caused this?

Why Virginia?

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

There's been enough with this "advanced directive" stuff. The whole thing is a shell game and a setup. As the saying goes there's one born every minute and that's what they're counting on. Generally if it's a good idea to sign something it's one's own idea not the other guy's. How dare they. This is what happens from that whole institution of "documents" that got started and people went along with it like morons as they do with many things thinking it's in their interest when it's not. This is disgusting.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Looks like the Nuremberg Code didn't end up protecting humans after all. Well I kept saying it hadn't and wouldn't, and why, and here's some more proof of its futility and being on the wrong track. IT HELPED TO CAUSE THIS.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

And unless you thought up the idea of "advanced directive" in any form by yourself, when some one gives you any form of one to sign or suggests you do or asks you if you know about it or tells you about it, remember, it's the other guy's idea.

It's obscene that legislatures even consider these things. For decades no legislature or court would ratify them. But finally, society deteriorated to the point where they did. It looks as if things are on track to get worse in Virginia. I think I've heard of this kind of document and of this concept before, by the way. I wish I could remember where.

The Nuremberg Code isn't even legtally binding? Another fine mess like the U.N. and look what it's gotten us into.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger T E Fine said...

Son of a.....

Okay, there has been enough bull in this world. It's bad enough that moms are being encouraged to kill their babies in utero if they're handicapped or mentally retarded. Bad enough that schools don't make it easy for kids who are disabled to intergrate properly. Bad enough that we have TV shows that show how people are *SO* much better off dead than they are disabled.

1. If there is no God, then everyone who gets turned into a human guinea pig will suffer and die painfully so that a few aftshafts can try to find the key to immortality so they don't have to worry about dying until they're too old and bored with life to care. So they make others suffer, because don't you know that the rich and powerful and educated have a right to live forever, and the working classes don't because they're there to breed, do the work, and be harvested? Elitism at its very best.

2. If there is a God, these doctors are setting themselves up for some serious judgement.

I'm pissed beyond the abilit to properly experss it. There's nothing wrong with being a human being that isn't "able bodied." We all get old, we all get sick, and we all die. I defy anyone who says, "We should be allowed to experiment on the dying and disabled," to put their money where their mouth is and volunteer for the *exact* same kinds of experiments, just to prove that there's some benefit and that it's all in good faith.

They won't. They don't want to hurt and they don't want to die.

Everyone in charge is a coward.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Well at least it's not legally binding re the use of animals in research either. But while it's supposed to protect (as much as anything not legally binding can) humans from research on humans without their consent, instead it's led things in the direction where that can happen again -- as here, and this isn't going to be the end of it; it's just the beginning of what's starting up all over again like deja vu.

Because no one had the guts to do better than the Nuremberg Code which was just another namby-pamby "nice" innovation like the U.N. that the world would be better off without. We should have been going in and beating the hell out of Russia while we were already over there. Wouldn't have needed the Nuremberg Code and its cowardly foisting of the unethical onto helpless animals. Well we're paying for it now, and frankly after what animals have suffered in laboratories as a result we asked for it and we're getting it and in fact a lot of us deserve it. But the rest of us don't.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

T.E. -- You're right -- Everyone is charge IS a coward. Even Obama said "that's above my pay grade." (Well, with him...don't get me started.) Well Reagan wasn't a coward, and while I never liked him and what he did to the Republican party with the religious right stuff and the country has never recovered from the polarization that caused, which only made it easier for liberals to destroy things, I didn't like the way people had fits over his having cut back on things they felt "entitled" to either, and if he'd freed the animals from the laboratories he'd be ok with me. But no, he wanted "science." There isn't a good smart sane person with guts among them, and if one were in charge everyone would give them a hard time.

What tv show(s) do you mean re the depicting being dead as better than being alive? I don't watch much tv. Which ones?

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Lydia McGrew said...

Whoa. This is a whole new angle. I'm blindsided. I didn't see this particular thing coming. Endlessly creative, evil is, in its own parasitic way.

The "oral advance directive" thing is a huge part of the problem. But there's a certain cruel logic about it: Hey, if people can direct in advance that they can be dehydrated to death, why _not_ let them direct in advance that they be experimented on?

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Advanced directives are criminal. A Will is designed to take care of things after one is gone, when one is no longer physically alive and cannot exercise control (well, I've seen spirit do some things, but leaving that aside...) over what happens otherwise. Advanced directives might be considered to be modeled on Wills, but they are a whole other category, because they determine what happens when one is STILL ALIVE. One may think when signing them that one's wishes will be carried out as a result and that this is a way to ensure that, but it fact they are a way, and often end up being used this way, to make sure that what someone ELSE -- including the person who put the piece of paper in front of you in the first place -- wants happens. They are a GIVING UP of rights, NOT a guarantee and protection of them. Viz. this example.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Lydia: Hey, the person gave permission, right? Documents of this genre are a way to get a person to be complicit in crime against him- or herself, to give up his/her rights, to acquire impunity for doing the criminal. Thus the whole "document" enterprise is criminal and unconsitutional (I haven't read the Constitution in a long time but if memory serves me...) in the first place. And it IS an enterprise.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

This really does make one sick.

Didn't Kruschev pound on a table with his shoe and say "We will bury you!"? (Please God that wasn't at the U.N., was it? It would figure if it was. And it got treated like a childish tantrum, when it meant a lot more than that. We didn't even make a fuss when someone threw shoes at Bush which could have injured or at the right angle killed our chief executive.) Well that sounds like the death culture to me. I want to know what's going on with this death culture stuff in Russia. And with their science. And with their fertility medicine. I think I know exactly what's going on, and darn right we didn't finish the last world war right. The Russian government uses and trains psychics and does experiments with them, such as when they directed energy at I forget which one of their leaders, but one of them, to see whether they could cause him to have a heart attack. The thing is, that kind of thing can work. I've seen it done. What if they are directing energy to foment the death culture? That kind of thing can definitely work. No, we wouldn't do that, but that's the point. They're not like us, and they would. Whether they are or aren't (and I suspect the former), Patton was right, anyway.

And what kind of idiocy would have the code made AT Nuremberg? Inside-out 20th-century involuted gutless thinking was responsible for that. If you want to stop something, you throw a grenade or a bomb or whatever at it from a distance while standing on your own turf, you don't go stand there where it happened and say ok everyone is going to make nice now and of course that you're agreeing to it on your own ground means that you've really learned your lesson extra good, now, and look at this deep symbolism we've got going here with the location. Like a bunch of Engliah literature professors and enthusiastics sitting around drinking sherry and saying "uh, yahhh" as they just keep drinking sherry, not accomplishing anything, God forbid they should do that. WHO won at Nuremberg? No wonder its contents made things worse; they didn't even know where to meet.

All those poor laboratory animals, and look what we've become as the result of all the "progress" we've made for which their use was "necessary." Doped-up, self-indulgent, ignorant, non-thinking, cancer-ridden, spineless, gutless idiots with no standards who can't even keep an economy together or well one could go on couldn't one is what we've become and look what just happened in Virginia. If people find it surprising, that proves my point.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

I mean, wouldn't that be the typical involuted weakling 20th-century way of doing things? Don't have to fight if you can make the other person WANT to die? Saves expense and time and risk of losing that fighting them would involve. This is the coward's way. Don't get called responsible if the person had a "living will"? Don't have to say you're violating ethical rules on experimentation if you can get the person to agree to it and even create a third party who's considered responsible, the proxy? And it fits. I had students years ago who were college sophomores and juniors and bright and must have studied history through high school at least and they actually did not believe that the Romans had killed people in warfare. That's the "nice" 20th century for you. That kind of cowardice and gutlessness is what had the meeting where the Nuremberg Code was made AT Nuremberg for "symbolic" reasons (with those behind what it claimed to be ending snickering and complicit with those who made the darn thing) and they decided to put it off on the poor helpless animals because nobody was going to fight a war over them. And it shows throughout our society, and in the invention and use of these "directives."

People think and say that the "modern world" is complex, and they get lost in it and in its components, and they don't really understand what's going on and what they're involved in. But it really ISN'T.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Lydia McGrew said...

Wow, I see what you mean about the default language. I'm very unhappy about "model advance directives" anyway. There's so much danger that something will just be printed up in this form and presented to a person checking in to a nursing home or whatever, and the person will think that all he needs to do is fill in the blanks naming his DPA for healthcare. So I looked down and found the sample, and sure enough, it lists authorization of participation in "studies" as one of the powers of the agent, and it just says, "Cross out anything below that you don't want in." That was creepy enough before, but they could always say, "Hey, it's just a model of the form the advance directive _may_ take." But lawyers all over the place will be copying this, the form will be reproduced like crazy, and now it has this extra bit in it that makes it even worse. Yikes.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

That's right lawyers all over the place will be copying it.

The part about "the attending physician" is REALLY scary. Some hospitals don't even LET one's OWN physician participate in one's care once they admit one, EVEN if s/he has privileges at that hospital, and they change attendings every week, and the "attendings" have to go along with the hospital administration's agenda if they want to keep their jobs. (Not that their own poor characer isn't to blame as well.) You can be in hospital, and be denied access to the doctor who knows and has treated you for years, even if that doctor has privileges at that hospital, and wants to help, and have one of these things pushed at you, and end up with a doctor you don't know and who is a complete stranger and has never seen you before as your "attending" -- and a different one of those every week, and whoever the "attending" is that week can make the determinations printed on these forms, including whether you live or die, and that "attending" is going to have to go along with the hospital's policy for the sake of his/her career, which is likely to be a more pressing concern to him or her than you are.

Re Patton: Well he was wrong about one and only one thing: That poor donkey he threw off the bridge. But other than that -- and look what they did to him because he slapped that soldier, which he did for the right reason-- same namby-pamby 20th-century stuff.

Nuremberg was a place of bad energy and anything else that comes from that place would be problematic too. Russia was the key and we blew it. Which doesn't surprise me after they gave Patton a hard time over slapping the soldier.

OH, CRIMONY -- NANCY PELOSI SAYS IT WILL SAVE COSTS TO DO MORE BIRTH CONTROL. Limbaugh is pointing out that that means fewer people. There are a lot of good reasons to have fewer people -- smaller pool of the 98 per cent of the human race who seem to be total losses and idiots. (But COSTS?

I would really like an answer to my questions about Russia, if anyone knows.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger SAFEpres said...

I'd like to point out that VA is the other state with a futile care law on it's books. So, this doesn't surprise me.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger SAFEpres said...

I also think it's very important that if Gov. Kane signs this bill, he be the first to sign one of these forms and offer himself up for experimentation, should he sustain significant illness or injury.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

From what I've heard thus far, Pelosi wants "family planning" for people who get government benefits to save money that otherwise the government would have to give them for a whole bunch of kids. Well, if "family planning" were only birth control, and the people got to choose their own means of birth control and were encouraged to use ones that are not potentially dangerous to health,I can see the point of this; but it won't be only birth control, and depending on the way it's worded in the regulation, it could force women to use birth control methods that are not good for their health, and the minute "costs" and life issues are mentioned in connection with each other, there's trouble.

A benign system that encouraged people to use safe means of birth control, e.g. barrier methods and not create children they won't be able to support while encouraging and helping them with job training, etc. to get on their feet and off the dole would be sensible and I think it should have been the system all along. But this is force them onto the pill the i.u.d., or the patch and to abort if they do get pregnant. I wonder where the ties are with the pharmaceutical companies that will profit from this.

Notice how Obama and his administration started in re family planning and abortion re disadvantaged women abroad, and now it's disadvantaged women here. Many of them, abroad and here, women of color. I wonder how much of this "family planning" stuff is addressed to men. As I said, his natural tendency is not to be a friend to women and children, in general. Or to families, or to the home, or to real estate.

I wouldn't mind if it were benign birth control (which it won't be) for those who have children to get more government benefits and more consideration for the elderly and the disabled. But this isn't a reassuring start.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

I mean benign birth control for those Pelosi is pushing "family planning" for, and of course only for as long as they are receiving government benefits, and more consideration by the administration for the elderly and the disabled.

SAFEpres: Do you know why it's Virginia? I wouldn't have expected it there. Is the other state Texas? I wouldn't have expected it in Texas either. Why do you think it's the two particular states that it is? I can't figure this out.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger T E Fine said...

Ianthe -

Re: TV shows that suggest death is better than disabled.

Star Trek: the Original Series, and Star Trek: the Next Generation, were both very anti-euthanasia (in the first, Vulcans had no word for "suicide" because they believed it was illogical, and in the second, when the resident Klingon Worf wanted help committing suicide, his best friend refused, called him a coward, and talked him out of it). Flash Forward to Star Trek: Voyager, and you've got a character named Q (only this one isn't John Delancy) saying he wants to die because immortality isn't what it's cracked up to be, and the resident Vulcan comes up with some clap-trap about Vulcans having a type of ritual suicide when they get too old or become disabled!

Then there's that movie, Million Dollar Baby. I won't even go into that but I boycotted the film, along with most members of Not Dead Yet.

There was an episode of CSI I found problamatic, too. And one ep of that... What's that Dr. Who spinoff? I can't think of the name of it - it's British, I know that. Darn it!

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger T E Fine said...

I'm posting this here and now because I don't keep my own web site, because I'm horrible at up-keeping them (I'm just bad at that).

If I ever end up in a "vegitative" state, where I'm basically asleep at the wheel, I demand to be kept alive under any and all circumstances unless my doctor is willing to commit suicide first, before having another doctor off me. And he has to use cyanide. Lots and lots of cyanide.

Sick, I know, but that goes back to the cowardice thing. I'm just like that.

But unless my doctor is willing to die first, I don't want to die under any circumstances unless my bod shuts down on its own and my soul flees of its own accord, thank you very much.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger T E Fine said...

Oy, I sent that last post before I finished writing.

And if I'm in such a state and my doctors *don't* want to kill me, but want to use me as their personal guinea pig, I will agree only on the condition that my doctor consents to undergoing the same experiment as me, without the benefit of anesthesia. Unless he's got the kajones to do that, I don't want it done to me.

If someone thinks I'm better off with another head growing in my lungs, that person better have one growing in his lungs, too. No doctor is better than the patient, and every patient deserves to be treated *exactly* like the doctor would treat himself.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger holyterror said...

Lanthe, My understanding is that all people who oppose this sort of nonsense had better get their own advance directives together. There are even some pro-life ones out there, already written out where you choose the relevant elements (for example, a young woman of childbearing age might write one section about being kept on life support to bring a baby to term, or to have extraordinary measures whereas and older person who felt that lots of equipment to restart the heart, etc. were unnecessary...)

Anyway, maybe all people who are concerned about being violated in this way should write their own.

We have certainly got to educate more people about this.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

T.E.: Thanks for the information on the tv shows. You're right about the doctors should be willing to do it themselves. A lot of them don't feel that they're not better than patients. But you're right about that.

Holyterror: I oppose the entire concept of advanced directives. I don't know why people think they have to have them. It's like mammograms or colonoscopies. A shibboleth. Someone who lives in the "end-of-life" world and knows all about this stuff told me that "living wills" were invented in order to get rid of the elderly and the disabled. I would NEVER sign one. The only thing I'd sign would be something that said if you fail to keep me alive no matter what you're getting sued by my estate and reported to the office of professional medical conduct and the D.A.'s office. Since when do we "have" to have them. It's like "having" to have insurance. People just go along with these bad societal agendas like sheep.

I understand what you mean but the damned hospitals and doctors (and elder law attorneys, often, and social workers, and the whole bunch of those involved, etc.) can't be trusted no matter what and it only makes it worse to participate in any mechanism of the overall agenda.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Holyterror: And you're right, we definitely have to educate more people about it.

There is something called the "Will to Live" that someone who's a paralegal in I think Ohio mentioned on SHS a few weeks ago, and I think it's the Illinois Right To Life Foundation that advises people to tear up their living wills (I'm not sure that's enough; a formal revocation should be done and the revocation document should be filed at the county clerk's office or wherever such documents are filed in one's jurisdiction) and sign one along the lines of the Will to Live.

I just don't think there ever should have been anything to sign on the subject in the first place. It wasn't the idea of people who want to live or who didn't want to have to be on life support; it was the idea of those who wanted a way to get rid of them.

 
At January 26, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Holyterror: Aside from their being really something other than people think, there are other problems with directives: We can't know in advance what's going to happen. We can't write them in a way that covers every contingency. Doctors aren't always right, and they aren't always honest, and hospitals have agendas that doctors follow. They are just a bad idea, a bill of goods that people have been sold. Their very existence gives an excuse and a toehold/basis for things to turn out the opposite of how one wants, no matter what they say.

 
At January 27, 2009 , Blogger K-Man said...

I am a Virginia native. This bill sounds very unlike the norm for the conservative legislature here, and it seems unlikely to pass. However, there has been next to no publicity about it...

 
At January 27, 2009 , Blogger holyterror said...

Wesley, why isn't there media coverage of this, and who do you think would be interested in covering it in a large media outlet?

 
At January 27, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

K-Man: That's what I would have thought. I don't understand why it's even starting there. Is there some medical or scientific institution that has a particular agenda that's pushing it? Does it have something to do with Washington, D.C.? It just doesn't make sense. But what's happened in Texas makes no sense either. Of course there's little publicity about it -- they don't want it.

Wesley: I have the same question as Holyterror about the media coverage.

Holyterror: Have you heard anything about the Pope's having sent a Cardinal over here in November '08 to try to straighten out the Catholic dioceses' charitable organizations about following the word of the Church? It was mentioned in a Catholic journal in California which said that the Cardinal's U.S. tour for that purpose was in response to one of those organizations having participated in an abortion in Maryland.

 

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